MORE EVIDENCE - 2 Miles from Lahaina Fire A Melted Car Surrounded by Gravel! D.E.W. or What?
So does anyone still think this was a grass fire or bush fire?
@JF,
Thank-you. Clear logical reasoning speaks for it's self. We're at WAR.
Truth always comes out.
Rev. 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the Bottomless Pit, whose name in Hebrew [is] Abaddon (Destroyer), but in Greek [his] name is Apollyon (Destroyer - Satan).
Does it appears the area was fine tuned?, possibly set up, and elements manufactured in the area at the right time attempting to conceal this deceit from the public possibly attempting to mind control folks into NOT believing someone would actually propagate, premeditate, this kind of destruction?
John 8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
John 8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.
Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth [it] to heart: and merciful men [are] taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil [to come].
57:2 He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, [each one] walking [in] his uprightness.
57:3 But draw near here, ye sons of the sorceress (Babylon the mother of harlots), the seed of the adulterer and the whore.
57:4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, [and] draw out the tongue? [are] ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,
57:5 Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks?
57:6 Among the smooth [stones] of the stream [is] thy portion; they, they [are] thy lot: even to them hast thou poured a drink offering, thou hast offered a meat offering. Should I receive comfort in these?
57:7 Upon a lofty and high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even there wentest thou up to offer sacrifice.
57:8 Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered [thyself to another] than Me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee [a covenant] with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest [it].
57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase [thyself even] unto hell.
57:10 Thou art wearied in the greatness of thy way; [yet] saidst thou not, There is no hope: thou hast found the life of thine hand; therefore thou wast not grieved.
57:11 And of whom hast thou been afraid or feared, that thou hast lied, and hast not remembered Me, nor laid [it] to thy heart? have not I held My peace even of old, and thou fearest Me not?
57:12 I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.
57:13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take [them]: but he that putteth his trust in Me shall possess the land, and shall inherit My Holy Mountain;
57:14 And shall say, Cast ye up, cast ye up, prepare The Way, take up the stumblingblock out of the way of My people.
57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name [is] Holy; I dwell in the high and holy [place], with him also [that is] of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before Me, and the souls [which] I have made.
57:17 For the inequity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid Me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.
57:18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
57:19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to [him that is] far off, and to [him that is] near, saith the "I AM"; and I will heal him.
57:20 But the wicked [are] like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
57:21 [There is] no peace, saith my God, to the wicked. King of kings' Bible - Isaiah
Gaslighting in the first point. All who have been through enough (not even piles and piles of material) of the evidence available have seen the fires started by fallen powerlines. Which throws his claim of having been through piles and piles of material on Lahaina into serious question.
It doesn't take weather warfare/modification systems to produce 80mph winds.
Interesting that they didn't set up effective barricades nor aim their guns at people who disobeyed their instructions. People were ultimately free to obey or ignore, as evidenced by survivor testimony. To lay this on any cops, normal or otherwise, who were standing in the danger zone, standing in the road and breathing in smoke, is a stretch. There's a point where a "paycheck" doesn't cut it anymore. I see those cops breathing smoke, and in spite of the wrong instructions, I see people who wanted to help and thought they were helping.
The more likely scenario is people giving orders from up top, who weren't there, instructing cops to keep people away from the original source of fire and also from many fallen powerlines on roads, and cops obeying orders (order followers) as usual. As the situation changed very quickly, fresh and/or good orders may not have arrived in time, such as to disregard the fallen powerlines on roads and to pass all vehicles through those roads if it meant getting to safety from the (now much closer) fire. If this was a plan to kill as many as possible, this aspect was not very well thought out.
The likeable person known as "Fish" who you may have seen granting interviews to Eric West, made sure to say he blames none of the cops who were there, only the chief of police.
Caps, bold, and very emphatic. And talking out of his behind. Jim Stone does not know no Jewish person lost their home, but he sure wants you to believe none of them did.
The Androns were soon joined by three other Jewish families who lost their homes in the blaze but were lucky to escape with their lives.
On the other side of the West Maui Mountain, protected from the inferno, lies Zirkind’s farm. It has an orchard, livestock and enough kosher food to feed a small army. Now it serves as a shelter for dozens of displaced Jews. Thursday night, Zirkind said, he hosted 50 people for dinner. On Friday morning 75 people came for breakfast.
“It’s gone,” he said. “Their house is a pile of ash. There’s nothing there. And she said to me, ‘Rabbi, Mendel, where do I go from here?‘”
On Maui, a Chabad outpost gives safe harbor to dozens of Jews – The Forward
Several members of Mallek’s congregation have lost their homes to the inferno, brought on by strong winds from Hurricane Dora. A congregation board member’s restaurant, The Kula Lodge, has been severely scorched, Mallek told eJP.
Jim Stone likes the quote: "Truth is reality, which lies and inventions fall to in the end."
Well said there, Jim. Well said. But you need to apply it to yourself and the things you say, as well. Love for truth, not love for one's beliefs being true.
Much is being made of the colour blue. And the (bizarre) impression I'm getting is that some people believe the few blue things that survived were the only blue coloured items/buildings in all of Lahaina. Because otherwise they would bring up the fact that many other blue items/buildings did not survive. It's like mass formation psychosis, the term Dr Robert Malone brought up in recent years.
Mass formation psychosis is a phenomenon where a large part of a society focuses their attention on a leader or a series of events and their attention focuses on one small point or issue. This can lead followers to be hypnotized and be led anywhere, regardless of data proving otherwise.
Drone footage shows orange, red, green, beige/cream items and buildings that survived. And white. Plenty of white. Now if someone took video of some of those things they could kick off another trend to possibly rival the blue trend.
One of the things I've noticed is the lack of follow-up - people record video but don't try to find the people who may be able to provide answers. The obvious reason why this is happening is internet clicks and $$$. Why spoil the chance of your video getting thousands of hits by talking to a person who might explain the seeming anomaly?
One example is the blue patio umbrellas. Flame-retardant patio umbrellas for sale can easily be found online. Why not talk to the bar owner/s and ask them if that's the type they purchased?
Another example is Eric West's two videos of burnt cars. Cars aren't like boulders where you can be pretty sure the boulder will have been in the same spot for years. They are transport devices (vehicles). Why not track down the owners if possible? The first question I would ask them is: was your car parked there when it caught fire, or did you park it and exit it because it caught fire? Then proceed from there depending on the answer. We don't even know if they were EVs (electric vehicles) that burn like crazy.
However, the fire could have started there (in the two locations). There is scorched earth in the surrounding area. Tires are a fuel source for fire. People sometimes burn tires for a source of heat. Note how all that's left of some tires are the metal wires that form part of it.
Fire-retardant air filters do not appear to be common, and appear to be sold mostly as custom parts. Materials used in common air filters can include cardboard, paper and cotton. If embers make their way through to such air filters, you have a fire. And that's without having gotten to the actual fuel tank yet.
In videos, and also listening to survivor accounts, we find that not just little embers but pieces of wood, flying branches, were a common occurrence. These can get stuck beneath a car. And if they catch fire, there will be nothing left of them but ashes, blown away in the wind, which is yet another explanation for - "How did this car burn? No fuel source near enough to it!"
What evidence have you seen that it didn't start with fallen powerlines, as shown in the video that @Persistent posted below?:
Looks like a feeble fire to me, hardly enough to melt engines inside cars. Note how easy it was to put out with a garden house. What if DEWs zapped a few power lines to create a scapegoat?
Hawaiian Electric says power lines were shut off hours before wildfire
Records "conclusively establish" that power lines to Lahaina bad been de-energized for six hours when the afternoon fire broke out.
On Sunday, Hawaiian Electric revealed that it had de-energized all its power lines in West Maui hours before devastating wildfires broke out on the island on the afternoon of August 8.
The claims contradict those made in lawsuits filed by Maui county and others against the energy company, accusing it of "inexcusably [keeping] their power lines energized during forecasted high fire danger conditions."
In a news release, HE said that while a downed power line did spark a fire on the morning of August 8, it was quickly attended to and "100% contained. The company went on to state that records "conclusively establish" that power lines to Lahaina [had] been de-energized for six hours when the afternoon fire broke out.
Do I need to point out that fires start small and grow bigger? And it wasn't the only fallen powerline (post) reported. I have seen the figure of around 50 mentioned, so far. But that video provides evidence that fallen powerlines started a fire. There is another video (somewhere) of a man pointing out a small fire in a field in another location not far from there, saying (if I remember correctly) "the firemen haven't gotten to this one yet".
As concerns that fire in that video, there are conflicting reports that (a) it was completely put out and (b) it was not completely put out and caught fire again later.
(a) forms part of Hawaiian Electric's current defence against the charges brought against it by the Maui government - that the fire in that video was put out by firemen so cannot be the fire that destroyed Lahaina. I'm sure a lot of video evidence is being looked at, some of which may not have been made public or been seen by us. And that should provide more answers.
At time of finishing this, I've just seen @NancyDrewberry also post about Hawaiian Electric and their claim that their powerlines were de-energized. The devil is usually in the details - is it true? At what time? Before or after more powerlines began other fires? Etc.
One thing's for sure, the powerlines on video fell due to high winds and were not de-energized. So whether or not the fireman put that one out 100%, the company did not de-energize them quickly enough to prevent that, and so this should be taken into account when it comes to their claims.
Mikal Watts, one of the lawyers behind the lawsuit, told the AP this week that he was in Maui, interviewing witnesses and “collecting contemporaneously filmed videos.”
...
Robert Marshall, CEO of Whisker Labs, a company that collects and analyzes electrical grid data, said sensors installed throughout Maui to detect sparking power lines showed a dangerously high number of such live wire incidents that night and into the following morning. The sensors, 70 in all, record breaks in electric transmission after trees fall on power lines or other accidents, and they showed dozens of such faults in areas where fires likely broke out and around the time the blazes probably started.
The faults, which Marshall likened to a series of circuit breakers tripping at the same time, were remarkable for the amount of power lost, a third of the usual 120 volts coursing through lines. Marshall said he couldn’t say whether any of the sparks resulted in a fire, only noting that there were many opportunities for it to happen.
“A substantial amount of energy was discharged,” said Marshall, pointing to a graph on his computer screen with several lines plunging at the same time. “Any one of these faults could have caused a wildfire, any could have been an ignition source.”
If Robert is correct, it's hard to square HE's claims of de-energizing, with that.
How about winds downing them instead, as there is evidence of?
And this type of fire causing melting of metals and glass in cars with no fuel sources nearby? Please explain. In one of the videos I put up ( sorry I forget which one ) it was claimed temperatures were over 2000 degrees which would explain molten metals and glass but not bushfires being the cause.
You need 3 things for a fire - heat, oxygen and fuel. How much oxygen is under the hood of a car, and most of those burnt out cars were in the middle of roads with the nearest fuel being meters away...I should add if you remove one of the 3 factors the fire goes out.
A LOT WENT WRONG IN MAUI TRAGEDY
Oxygen under the hood (I remember hearing someone in Eric's video making that same comment) - from below the vehicle. Same as some fireplaces have vents below them (mine does) which can be opened or closed, to allow air from below the grates to come up and feed the fire, while having the fireplace window (some have one, again mine happens to have one) to remain closed.
The plastic at the front of the hood of the vehicle shown in Eric's Part 2 vid was also burnt completely, and once that happened, oxygen would have even more access into the hood, despite the hood itself remaining shut.
The nearest fuel source of all was the car itself, and its components. Same for many buildings. Embers catch onto something flammable, and things take off from there.
Some Lahaina residents had replaced low-quality asphalt roofs with metal ones (or high-quality asphalt) to reduce fire-risk. Many did not. Many buildings were wooden.
Wood shakes, and low-quality asphalt shingles could catch fire from a wildfire or from a building fire. If the structural integrity of the roof fails during a fire, the materials can fall in and fuel the fire or start one inside of the building.
That's what we see in some instances - some house's walls (if made of concrete) still standing but the roof collapsed into them.
The argument that a fire that got so big and hot could not start as a grass fire/s, is neither here nor there. Small fires is how big fires begin. High winds do two things - feed it and carry it.
There is not enough fuel in that scrubby looking grass to provide enough fire to burn cars to the extend they were burnt, no grass in the roads either....ALL those cars burnt apart from a couple saw in the footage from Front street, your right grass fires burn quickly and spread fast and the fuel is all gone, very quickly..
From my previous comment:
And from earlier:
So you think each of those cars had a branch fly under it? Interesting viewpoint, but highly unlikely.
More like:
Hundreds of videos show both debris (like branches) and embers flying in the wind, and collecting in roads, piling up a fair bit.
And:
If that was the, or one of the, sources, for some car fires, the branches would not leave any evidence of their having been there. Unless there's some fancy shmancy way of testing for this I don't know about.
Example:
Flammable debris on road as man rushes to put out small fire. Some of the debris is knee-high.
Not likely if Aluminum block engines were reduced to powder...
As I keep saying, the main fuel source (for a bigger and hotter fire than just embers and/or branches) would be the car components itself, once they caught fire.
We know aluminium (ultrapure) has a melting point of 660C/1220F. However, most applications are said to be alloys with lower melting points.
One of the other things that gets mentioned is glass. It depends on the glass but generally it becomes malleable, plasticky like, at roughly 600C/1100F.
The tempered glass melts between 1100 and 1300 degrees Fahrenheit.
I could swallow the argument of cars in a dense forest totally ablaze having their windows melted but not as seen on Front Street, there is no way, its not 1 or 2 cars here its 10's of them all lined up and meters from combustible material.