I guess i may as well explain, DG, having said this much, that i am not so interested in cern in and of itself. For the past few decades i have taken a deep interest in mathematics and science, particularly those areas of physics that seek to answer the most difficult questions concerning the nature of reality and existence.
I am not formally trained in these matters, just a lifelong student, studying independently.
It was through these studies that i became aware that the things which are unseen are in a sense more real than that which is seen, like as the idea of a thing precedes the thing itself. Also, there is much beauty in the rules and ideas which govern the unseen, so much so that i see the Creators fingerprints in all of it.
Imagine my surprise to discover that faith and science, or rather the Word of God and the laws which govern the physical universe, are not really two different things at all(consequence of fractal cosmology, fractal reality)
Of course i know that much of science has been used for evil. Such is the nature of men, unfortunately. I think (i hope) that these studies were not a waste of time, as they seem to be the path i chose to find answers. I now know that it was God i was seeking, and it turns out that, much to my amazement, the Answer actually found me!
But this is just one facet of my path toward realization of the truth, and one i am grateful for.
That said, it does disturb me that a bunch of demons, or idiots, have taken the quest for truth and turned it into a quest to do evil. As for what it is that they are doing specifically, all we can say for certain is that it is satanic, as you said.
Thank-you @Georgeh for sharing your thoughts here on the DG forum. Our (people here and in general) differences may at times take center stage, but what we have in common is what brings us together (and it is better that that be the focus). As far as what you said (quote above) made me think of this well-known phrase:
"You Can Lead a Horse To Water, But You Can't Make It Drink". So be it.
Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy Light is come, and the glory of the "I AM" is risen upon thee.
60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the "I AM" shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee. King of kings' Bible - Isaiah
Dear @Georgeh,
Good day and good wishes
This might help further explain?
Understood.
You're not alone.
All of us here need correction and training constantly.
Excerpt from The Way home or face The Fire
12:10 Before Prince Michael could start his real work in the world, his new body, with its new name
(Rev. 3:12), would have to reach its late-thirties in age, and he would have had to have learned to
control the animal he was using, and how to overcome, and resist, all the different types of
temptation, and have already received a perfect, and secret training, just like before.
12:11 The reason that Jesus told his disciples, that he had many things still to tell them, but that they
could not bear them yet, was because, if he had told them all the things in this Book, even they
would have thought he was crazy, like many people already did. How could you explain spaceships,
etc., to the simple mentality of 2000 years ago? You have to consider what the mentality was like in
those times, spaceships?; angels?; other planets?; souls?; reform-school for another planet?; space-
travel? There will be people, even now, after 2000 years, who will not believe, even though they
have seen Earth’s own very crude spaceships, etc.
12:12 After the first coming, the way had to be prepared for the second, so that when Christ came
again, people would be able to believe the Truth (Dan. 12:4).
10:41 God Himself, through the Koran, has said that Christ will come again, JUST BEFORE the
Last-Day, as a last warning of the doom that IS COMING (Sura 43:61 & 52:1-16)
13:18 Beware of your own arrogance, or SELF-confidence, because religious arrogance, or false
SELF-righteousness, is the easiest for Satan to use to fool you. Beware of “SELF”, and the enemy-
within!
This little book saved my life.
May The Force (Love) be with you.
Agreed. Holding the horses head underwater doesnt seem to work well either.
Oh, i read the little book. Its amazing. I struggled to find the slightest flaw in it, diligently, and was unable to do so. Praise the Lord that i like to read and study, this also is a gift from Him. I was also startled to find references to it in revelation 23. Well, i was startled to find revelation goes past chapter 22. Amazing.
.
On this concept of self, i must admit that it has caused me much confusion.
Many years ago i began to think of other people as a sort of extension of my self, or rather that we are all interconnected in a sense, all are one.
If we adhere to the principle, or rather law, that we should do unto others as you would have them do unto you, then it is not much of a mental leap to suppose that what we do unto others we actually ARE doing to ourselves. Literally.
So the possibility of the loss of many of the people closest to me actually feels like my own (self) is being ripped apart.
And actually this seems to be true, like just as much of humanity is dying, so also is a large part of me dying. The part that needs to die.
It seems to me that we cannot completely let go of the self lest we lose our individual identity. Yet we have to subjugate or restrain our self so that it does not rise above any other self? To retain identity while forcing the ego out and placing the self into the service of the whole?
Please share your thoughts
S/elf = Satan's elf. A dreadful entity.
Thank-you for sharing your thoughts because it led me to view this again: The Divine in me
JAHTruth.net never gets old. 
Having thought about it(and asking for help), perhaps there is really no such thing as an independent self.
Since our souls were made by the Lord, and we are all brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, connected together and through the Father, does the idea of a soul, or self, existing independently of external factors even make sense?
Imagine one of the cells in your body deciding that it doesnt need the rest of the body or its neighbors anymore. The cell would be badly in error thinking that its existence as an independent self was even a legitimate or meaningful concept.
So maybe the problem is with me even thinking that i have an independent self at all, and as soon as i think i do, i have constructed a sort of beast that exists only in my mind?
Maybe we need only realize that it doesnt really exist unless we create it?
@Georgeh This ('self') is actually an extremely serious subject. Even being a matter of life or death. I posted the link above where the answers are found: The Divine in me
@Georgeh From some of the thoughts you have shared relating to others, if you do not mind me saying so, and hoping to not offend or be misunderstood which is sadly the case so often, and wishing as well not to be a "teacher" or a "preacher" by any means; there is something you may want to consider that over the years I've had to consider. It is something that is quite misunderstood and in the context of 'self' even more misunderstood. Finding it properly explained on the internet or in books is difficult and nearly impossible because it is very insidious and disguised rather well. That which I speak of is called codependency. Often when the human + being lacks a full understanding of The Truth (in regards to attachments to others in the matters of love, forgiveness, friendship, caring, sacrifice, empathy, sympathy and every other feeling and emotion associated with these matters) they will make wrong choices, or misunderstand or be blind to their own selfish motives. Codependency can look virtuous, but being the 'self' it only looks fluffy and cuddly on the outside. Spiritual matters are highly personalized. As connected as people may be to others in their lifetime, on the death bed of the body, it can be realized how alone (not lonely) one really is in finding their one-to-one relationship with Father and The Lord; which is the only Relationship that really matters in the end. Find that, live that and You have found all You need. Thank-you @Georgeh for sharing. Blessings for the new year.
I read the link you sent me ND. I agree with what you are saying, and this thing we call "the self" is not an easy concept to grasp, at least for me.
It is clear that this thing called self is something that we need to lose, thereby becoming selfless, in the sense that Christ was selfless i.e. utterly unselfish.
So i think my point still stands that the self, in the context of this discussion, is an artificial(man-made?) construct and was not ever even meant to be, a lie that we told ourselves or was told to us and then believed it?
This begs the question.
Was the original sin the first manifestation of this thing we call "self"?
The act of pleasing ones self over obediance to God?
It rings true to me. Please feel free to disagree, being wrong no longer offends or even surprises me. Im used to it.
My goal in seeking to understand the matter is to make it easier for me to, with the Lords help, rid myself of the self, pardon the pun.
I see what you are saying about co-dependency ND, but i dont think that is the root of my concern.
Rather, i simply care about others, and i want them to open their eyes and to find their way home.
Just a sense of concern, deep caring, because we were, all of us, made that way. I dont depend on them so much, i just care about them and i dont want them to suffer. Im sure we all feel that way.
I dont feel so strongly for them exclusively because of them, but rather because i was made that way, made in the image of my Father, as were we all.
So yes, it is a deadly serious matter.
So dangerous in fact that it must be crucified, utterly obliterated, lest it destroy us.
So a correct understanding of it is an absolute imperative, and in my case a thorough understanding of it may be essential for me to defeat it, but even then only possible with direct intervention from the Lord of All.
So pray for me please, and i will do the same for you, and together, with the Lords help, defeat it we shall.
Is it possible for "it" to be utterly obliterated/completely destroyed in our current state as human + beings? I speak rhetorically to bring the thoughts to the table. For 'it' to be completely destroyed it would not be necessary to crucify 'it' daily. It is like a pilot light (real and not imaginary) to be kept at bay to avoid harm or to keep it from blocking out G(o)od. "It" is the devil within us (as a voice in our head 3:29 TWHOFTF) that may have originated in the Garden of Eden (eating the "apple") or perhaps earlier as fallen angels who warred against God when we were in heaven. Either way, "it" is real (lies are real and as real as the devil is). Now I am reminded of Cord in "The Silent Flute" and the daily trials we encounter.
Below relates to the compassion for others that you have talked about. Thank-you.
Sedata had seen the ultimate reality of all things. He understood that every movement in the Universe was an effect provoked by a cause. He knew that there was no salvation without compassion for every other Being. From that time on Sedata was known as the Buddha, the Awakened or Enlightened and Anointed One (see film, Dune)......which means exactly the same as the word Christ, whose True Teaching is identical to that of Buddha's true teaching. . .
Wishing you all that is Good and Blessed for the Sabbath:
Excellent point ND, it has to be crucified daily.
The origin of it is interesting, is it not?
As you said, maybe in the garden or maybe before.
Thats a tough one.
I dont really know, but i think it all comes back to sex, or rather lust.
Looking at Genesis ch2, they were told not to eat of the tree by God, and then later Eve says that she was told not to eat of the fruit of the tree NOR TO TOUCH IT.
Also consider that the tree of life and the tree of knowledge(evil) were both planted in the midst of the garden, and that the tree of life sits on both sides of the river.
Looking at the human body, is there something in the midst of you that could be a source of life or also could be a source of amusement?
The tree sitting on both sides, i suspect, means that both male and female have this attribute. Whether man or woman, you have both trees between your legs.
He was telling them not to have sex, nor to touch it, (we know what that means).
A woman once told me, in a sinful moment, that even the gods would be jealous of us. What did the serpent say to Eve? You will become as Gods.
So in not obeying God, they succumbed to lust and became their own gods for a moment?
It seems then like the act of sex outside of God's law is the original manifestation of the self and is therefore an attempt to be God, a direct attack on Him, an abuse of the power to create, to regenerate.
Concerning the watchers, the fallen ones, doesnt it say that they looked upon the daughters of men and found them desirable?
So it takes us back to the same place. Lust.
Is this what caused a division in the Heavens?
Looking at the world today, i could almost believe that.
The false prophet frog croaks his nonsense Revelation 16:1-21
Ive been a long time trying to figure this out, and have asked the Lord to help me do so.
Kind of funny i suppose that i still struggle with genesis ch2, but how can you expect to understand the bible without understanding the beginning?
It may be that the whole larger story is contained "in the beginning".
If you know the universe is a fractal and that the bible has a fractal structure, then you know what i mean.
Example : The Lord was displeased with nebuchadnezzer and made him to live as a beast of the field and eat grass for seven periods of time. Why seven?
Isnt the story about us?
Isnt the story of cain and able really about the Christ(the good son) vs. lucifer(the bad son)?
It is a series of repeating self-similar patterns occuring, or echoing across the various realms, scales, dimensions.
As above, so below
We will only ever know as much as the Lord will grant to us, but He is very generous to those who seek to understand.
I figure there are people here who understand these things much better than i do, so maybe someone can resolve the matter with a more precise explanation.
I would use a different word other than lust. That word would be desire because it covers more ground. Any desire outside the desire to do God's Will is problematic.
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness (lies), blasphemies King of kings' Bible - Matthew
Desire covers more ground, but lust is more to the point.
Consider the tree of life, planted on both sides of the river(of living waters).
The tree of life is rooted on both sides of the river and is therefore rooted in both the male and the female.
Just as the tree of life merges at the top into one tree, so do the two(male and female) become one flesh.
Thence, a union outside of a Godly marriage is a misuse of the gift of life and is an attack, in a sense, on all of creation and therefore an attack on God himself.
An attack on His very "being"?